[G_O] Re: Zapatistans and Euskadi
Nate Holdren
nateholdren@hotmail.com
Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:00:52 -0500
Hi Matteo and Martin,
Martin, I'm fine w/ you reproducing whatever you like from these exchanges.
Matteo, I'm not sure it'd be very productive to debate the correctness and
utility of an idea that Hardt and Negri have since abandoned, so I'm going
to try rein in my eagerness and not to make too much of this (unless of
course more folks would like to discuss this, in which case I'm interested.)
There's an article somewhere by Harry Cleaver I believe, about the networks
that came together to oppose the passage of NAFTA here in the US, Mexico,
and Canada. I'll see if I can find it if you're interested. The point of the
piece was that while NAFTA still passed, that activity built relationships
and organizations which were very important for solidarity activity with the
EZLN and eventually to making the events of November, 1999 in Seattle
happen. It would of course be easy to make too much out of this since the
Zapatistas are romantic for a lot of folks, but the point for me is that
this activity (not to mention a lot of other activity during the time
periond on which HN based the incommunicability arguments) doesn't make
sense to me given the thesis of incommunicability (and vice versa). As such,
I don't understand why the argument was ever made nor why it was taken
seriously. When I read it, I chalked it up to an error which many
tremendously brillian thinkers make (along with the claim that the IWW never
made it outside the USA, which was news to members in Australia.)
If you could lay out briefly what you find correct or appealing in the
argument, I would really appreciate it.
Anyway though, I don't want to beat a dead horse.
all the best,
Nate
>From: m hardie <auskadi@cwpanama.net>
>Reply-To: generation_online@kein.org
>To: generation_online@kein.org
>Subject: [G_O] Re: Zapatistans and Euskadi
>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:36:24 -0500
>
>Kaixo Nate and Matteo
>
>Thanks for the comments. I agree with you Matteo that the
>"incommunicability" concept is not entirely absurd. The localised nature of
>struggles is what it is driving at and the material differences in any
>given place. Hence I think the differences in approach between that of ETA
>and Marcos. I have now posted the ETA response and Marcos' reply to them
>(the guy should have a late night TV show, maybe just before Chavez).
>I am finding the whole debate fascinating. Marcos characterises in his
>witty way the approach of Garzon and ETA as being essentially the same
>(dinasours. Another interesting feature is the completey different reaction
>by Batsuna and ETA. Batasuna have been labelled the political arm of ETA by
>the Aznar regimes "war on terrorism machine" (ie Garzon and the Spanish
>media. But on my reading their response and the response of ETA are light
>years apart.
>Anywaay I sugest aa read of the ETA letter and the Marcos response
>(documents 10 and 11 on this page:
>http://dev45217-01.sp03.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/ZapatistasetaEuskalHerria)
>And please feel free to log in and comment there. If its Ok I will edit the
>2 responses (Nate and Matteo) and put them somewhere realted to tat page.
>
>Agur
>
>Martin
>
>
>>Message: 2
>>From: "Nate Holdren" <nateholdren@hotmail.com>
>>To: generation_online@kein.org
>>Subject: Re: [G_O] Zapatistas and Euskadi
>>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:01:47 -0500
>>Reply-To: generation_online@coyote.kein.org
>>
>>
>>Hi Martin-
>>We had an argument about non-communicability a while back. I'm told
>>Negri/Hardt have since taken that claim back, thankfully as it's plain
>>stupid. I don't think I've read the piece wherein they did that though, it
>>probably wasn't contrite enough for my tastes anyway.
>>best,
>>n8
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: m hardie <auskadi@cwpanama.net>
>>>Reply-To: generation_online@kein.org
>>>To: generation_online@coyote.kein.org
>>>Subject: [G_O] Zapatistas and Euskadi
>>>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:33:43 -0500
>>>
>>>Goers
>>>Hi
>>>I am trying to compile a dosssier of the correspondence between Sub Com
>>>Marcos and Spain/Pais Vasco for my class on my now active Twiki place -
>>>OpenTalk. The gringo journal counterpunch just published a few pieces in
>>>the story in English. they ahve not published the ETA response which I
>>>have only seen in castellano on rebelion.org.
>>>Has anyone seen it and other pieces not included in the link below in
>>>English?
>>>Thanks
>>>Martin
>>>p.s. what was that about the non-communicability of struggles?
>>>http://dev45217-01.sp03.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/ZapatistasetaEuskalHerria
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>generation_online mailing list
>>>generation_online@coyote.kein.org
>>>http://coyote.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/generation_online
>>
>>
>>
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>>Message: 3
>>From: "matteo mandarini" <m.mandarini@libero.it>
>>To: <generation_online@kein.org>
>>Subject: R: [G_O] Zapatistas and Euskadi
>>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:18:28 +0100
>>charset="iso-8859-1"
>>Reply-To: generation_online@coyote.kein.org
>>
>>If i recall correctly, it was a pre-Seattle concept and it was - what
>>many have noted - the fact that struggles had become so localized that
>>there was - among other things - no common language for struggles to be
>>communicated through. One could sympathise with the Zapatista's but was
>>one really asking for such a struggle to be exported to the EU, US,
>>Japan... Anyway, yes the concept was very problatic but it seems to me
>>not completely absurd. With the escalation of globalization, or at least
>>the increasingly well defined contours and politics, all this has of
>>course changed - the shift from no-global to new-global seems to be an
>>interesting innovation on the Left after the initial simplistic, luddite
>>(dialectical?) opposition previously employed.
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Messaggio originale-----
>>Da: generation_online-admin@kein.org
>>[mailto:generation_online-admin@kein.org] Per conto di Nate Holdren
>>Inviato: mercoledì 22 gennaio 2003 6.02
>>A: generation_online@kein.org
>>Oggetto: Re: [G_O] Zapatistas and Euskadi
>>
>>
>>Hi Martin-
>>We had an argument about non-communicability a while back. I'm told
>>Negri/Hardt have since taken that claim back, thankfully as it's plain
>>stupid. I don't think I've read the piece wherein they did that though,
>>it probably wasn't contrite enough for my tastes anyway.
>>best,
>>n8
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: m hardie <auskadi@cwpanama.net>
>>>Reply-To: generation_online@kein.org
>>>To: generation_online@coyote.kein.org
>>>Subject: [G_O] Zapatistas and Euskadi
>>>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:33:43 -0500
>>>
>>>Goers
>>>Hi
>>>I am trying to compile a dosssier of the correspondence between Sub Com
>>
>>
>>>Marcos and Spain/Pais Vasco for my class on my now active Twiki place -
>>
>>
>>>OpenTalk. The gringo journal counterpunch just published a few pieces
>>
>>in
>>
>>>the story in English. they ahve not published the ETA response which I
>>
>>have
>>
>>>only seen in castellano on rebelion.org.
>>>Has anyone seen it and other pieces not included in the link below in
>>>English?
>>>Thanks
>>>Martin
>>>p.s. what was that about the non-communicability of struggles?
>>>http://dev45217-01.sp03.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/ZapatistasetaEuskalH
>>
>>erria
>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>generation_online mailing list
>>>generation_online@coyote.kein.org
>>>http://coyote.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/generation_online
>>
>>
>>
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>>_______________________________________________
>>generation_online mailing list
>>generation_online@coyote.kein.org
>>http://coyote.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/generation_online
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>>
>>
>>
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